Has Technology Improved Your Metrics?
When Joel and I started recruiting, our goals were simple. Hit this many submittals per week and this many starts per month. If we went out and started another firm today, those metrics would more or less be the same. Technology is supposed to be helping our company, right? Then why haven't our metrics improved?
Connect with Joel here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelleege/
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Brad Owens
Hello everyone welcome back to another episode of the transform recruiting podcast per usual I'm your host Mr. Brad Owens and with me today I just got to say that I love this industry. This industry is as big as we think it is with as many thousands of customers that companies that do this Ah, there really are some shared threads among all of us and it's a a much smaller world than you might anticipate. Um, so want to bring on my guests today and I'm just now realizing that it didn't ask him how to say his last name so I'm going to guess here and you could tell me how badly I did Mr. Joel leggy that do it.
00:38.84
Joel Leege
Um, to all right? You got it perfect I've got sum someone coached you perfectly that was great.
00:45.18
Brad Owens
Yes, see that it's after how many names do we have to normally call when we're recruiting starting out like we get pretty good at at guessing people's names. So welcome to the show Sir Now of course so before we get too far I Want to make sure everyone kind of understands where you're coming from.
00:51.12
Joel Leege
Yeah, that's great. Thank you Thanks for having me appreciate it.
01:04.33
Brad Owens
So if you could give them just a tiny little slice of what your career till now has been could you just fill them in a little bit.
01:08.83
Joel Leege
Yeah, no glad to um, yeah I like I 90% of the folks right fell into the industry right right out of a a college and in in grad school and I had a job in New York and Felon industry 97 so I've been involved for this is my twenty seventh year the industry started as a recruiter moved into sales shockingly um, cut my teeth with an organization there and then was part of Hallkinyon which I think had a great influence on my career going forward. We were part by k-force. So. Grew up there leading teams regions et cetera and and then continued through a ah number of different firms that were public and private. Some were small as small as 30000000 others were were larger. Most recently had been at ronstad technologies in ronsstead group which was around twenty Eight billion so the largest in the industry and then um, this year joined a small private firm really more West Coast based red oak technologies as the president co o o so excited to be here 27 years in the business feel like I have a. Diverse background in terms of what that has been but it's been fun and like you said a lot of mutual connections where we've crossed craft paths but folks that have done so many different things over the years
02:21.42
Brad Owens
Yeah, it really is a crazy incestuous community. But it's it's always fun. It kept us around for at least as long so one of the interesting things we were talking about before we went live here and something to kind of dovetail on you've been doing this for like you said 27 years now
02:25.26
Joel Leege
Um, yeah, this yeah.
02:40.48
Brad Owens
Ah, multiple different locations. You've had probably multiple different tech stacks multiple different tools at your disposal. Um, what do you feel like the role of technology has been on your career up until now.
02:53.52
Joel Leege
Well I think with anything it's to enable enable efficiency and effectiveness right? I used to say I used to get ask a lot right? If if you go around and do a town hall with teams right sales and recruiting teams. What makes a really successful salesperson a recruiter. And 1 of the 2 things I would always mention is intellectual capacity. Um, and and some folks who say dare you you mean you have to be smart and I said well but I do believe you have to be smart but you also have to be able to know how to leverage your tools. So if you're meeting with a customer for the second third or fourth time and you're asking them about their tech stack. And what they code in and and what what's their environment like but you had it in your notes for the first time on your Ats or your crm you should be leveraging that right because I've met with those cios that said hey I feel like I've repeated myself here with your person and that's not how we work right? so. I think in terms of my career. It's enabled me to be able to use those tools to build on it each step of the way. Um I certainly think in terms of data analysis and visualization and kind of where you're going. It's it's not just that look at what have we as a team region, company etc done in the past. But also if we can continue you that trend what does that look like right and and how do we make up the difference and for me one of the more exciting parts about that is setting the big goals right? What's the behag and being able to use that data to our advantage to say if we continue this here's what we can do.
04:23.62
Joel Leege
And and someone of that old adage of you know what got you here won't get you there. So um I think that's how it's been more of an enabler for me.
04:31.42
Brad Owens
They know that's a really interesting perspective because of those points that you mentioned a lot of those are at the how do we use technology to help lead and guide there. There's not a whole lot in there for. How does it actually help our sellers and our recruiters actually do their job better more efficiently and maybe potentially even make more money in the same amount of time because something interesting that we talked about before we jumped on is this idea of Kpis in the industry. How do you think kpis.
04:56.37
Joel Leege
Um, you.
05:07.82
Brad Owens
Have evolved if at all.
05:08.22
Joel Leege
Yeah I and I did say this and so I'll kind of share it for the audience here and and a few people have been at you know conferences in the past and I've done some other podcasts where I've said this which is when I started 97 with a company then called Cdi which doesn't really exist in that form today. Started as a recruiter brand new in this industry and was essentially told ten submittals a week. We expect 4 of those to be client interviews and eventually you're getting one start a week and that's that's core expectations for what we do? Um, what's amazing in 2024.
05:43.37
Joel Leege
I would say many of the organizations I work with in the professional side white collar strong margins right? 20 to $30 margins in this business. 1 quality new start a week on the contract side is absolutely hidden expectations and if that is 8 to 10 client subs even unique. Individuals that's hitting expectations. The difference is the tools we're paying for are tremendously different than they were in 97 right? and the technologies we have available. Um and it's almost of you've you've got to be you got to keep up with the joneses right? It's somewhat of I can drive a car that's a sedan that has I have to roll down the windows. The 90 s and I've got a manual station and it still gets me from point a to b it can probably still those in or 60 really fast. But today the folks that we're recruiting wears Linkedin recruiter.
06:22.25
Brad Owens
Um, manually.
06:34.15
Joel Leege
Where's my technology that's already going to match my candidates for me. Do you have an engagement platform that's going to connect with them and get them teed up to talk with me right? What about when I start them what kind of platform do we have so there are these conversations today that's more of well are you driving the newest version or are you still on the 90 s version um what's ironic about that is the profitability of the firms. The margin in those firms are fairly similar to what they were twenty seven years ago um so ultimately you have to look at where do those costs come from right? Can they gain us actual efficiency in other areas of the business can we manage more candidates can we grow faster right. All of those things are going to be part of you know is it just the cost of doing business today or how do we allocate that or how how do we prioritize it going forward.
07:18.16
Brad Owens
So Let's dig into that then because we've now mentioned two sides of this. We've mentioned that the role that technology has kind of played and the way that you see it in your current day to day is more of the how do we lead? How do we? predict? How do we? Um you. Develop our I think he called it the Behag the Bigaryotish school Um, which is fantastic for technology because it can certainly help you forecast and you're not going to be able to forecast if you don't have any of the right data flowing through your system and like that's all really important stuff. So yes, the role of technology is important because. If our recruiters and our sellers use it. It will be very valuable for us as leaders to be able to look at those kinds of reports those trends as graphs. Whatever we need. But if that technology is not.
08:00.83
Joel Leege
Great.
08:09.50
Brad Owens
Improving our recruiters in our sellers lives so much that they can actually be more efficient and make more than the one start a week or ten subs a week. Whatever it might be is it actually doing what we need it to.
08:21.85
Joel Leege
Yeah I think that you also have to look at and I think sometimes I default to and I think a lot of folks do default to the role of just sales and recruiter the way that we did it and I've shared this with some other folks too that once I moved over a very sales desk. There was only a couple ways to get a full of customers phone. We didn't really know have emails. No one had to sell phones back then right or you would walk into them and and meet them in person or some user group or association. But back in the 90 s I mean going back in time right? We walked to school both ways up hill right? people picked up their phone. They do not today not in the same way that they picked them up.
08:50.77
Brad Owens
In the nineteen hundreds. Yeah.
09:00.66
Joel Leege
Twenty seven years ago or over time. So I also think that there's technologies that hasn't just improved it but totally changed it. We evaluated a company and an organization I was with in the past acquired that company and they did creative marketing in digital. We sat down with her team and said tell me about your sales process. As they walk through their sales process from their initial outreach outreach to the customer which by the way was about content which is about how they got the customer to actually engage on that content. They let us know that their salespeople didn't pick up the phone to call the customer until. They had had their customer engage their own content 3 different times and typically at this point they were asking for help 9097 didn't have anybody asking for help right? We were calling them and trying to get an opportunity to meet with them to understand their wound and challenge and how could we actually be a good partner to them. So I do think some of the technology changes today are the sales cycle isn't the same what kind of tools. Do you have that can generate a marketing qualified lead sales qualified lead. How does that actually turn into customers all the the focus and effort we put around Seo in the past and that's actually from a sales channel perspective. Tools we didn't have the hubspots of the world etc that allow you to nurture and stay in touch with him I think that's one of the things that we have to look at that should make us more effective right? and and even better at it right? If you think about how many prior customers we've worked with all these organizations been around for a while.
10:28.76
Joel Leege
What kind of campaign. Do you have to stay in touch with it in a positive way. That's not just I'm trying to sell you something and in the same way I think you say on the recruiting side. How many times. Do we think about what the redeployment rate is right? I'm sure that's talked about a lot is you know I know punage over a sense is always used to how and the average was marked 7 % okay 7 to 10% still not great, right? when 90% of the candidates would finish an assignment and actually not have a brand new assignment with you. That's a massive area of improvement. So I would say as technology continues to improve on off a little track here. But. I would say that those areas we should continue to see better better improvement on and I do think some of the technology tools have helped there and we've started to see those numbers climb into double digits and even more so um, again where companies focus on that they start to see that improvement.
11:18.50
Brad Owens
I agree with that and I'd be curious to get your take on kind of what I'm seeing in the industry as well because a lot of the metrics that at least when I was leading one of the yes we all had our standard Kpis of how many starts how many so Like. What are actual numbers that are going out the door. What I at least found and what I'm picking up on people using technology the most for is if we instead don't look at like those end whole number Kpis and instead look more at ratios. Technology should be helping with ratios so things like submission to interview and then submission to hire like we should be if we have a good matching engine and a better matching Engine. We should be able to get higher submission interview ratios.
12:09.87
Joel Leege
Um, yes.
12:10.24
Brad Owens
If we are then presenting those better candidates that get more interviews we should in theory get more submission to hire and if we're truly using technology to kind of impact things I don't know that we're putting enough stock in those ratio numbers.
12:24.24
Joel Leege
Yeah, no I agree I agree I think that the ratios are a great way to look at you got to have some constants with that though I think right? What's the constant to tell me that I now improved that process that I did this but here's what I did in the past and it was X Now it's y it's so much better.
12:42.64
Brad Owens
Um, yeah.
12:44.22
Joel Leege
Um, and and I wish I had some of the ratios going back when we talked about the recruiting side. Ah you know I think in the early two thousand s I was still at an organization that had recruiters bringing candidates into their desk interviewing them at the desk if they were extremely happy with the talent person. The culture. They would bring a salesperson over to talk with this is 2003 2004 to talk with them to say this is the salesperson who will be helping you to identify your next opportunity. So I'm going to write up a summary for them, etc and then when that was done. It would go into a binder I mean again, this is twenty years ago and the sales peopleople would go out with the binder. The binder had talent. It was essentially like walking out into your customer with a rolodex of here's what I have in the warehouse and when the manager would say I'm looking for c plus plus or c sharp or whatever it might be you would flip to it and say here are are the available people that we have I just met this in invisible yesterday. I think what was different about those ratio was when you as a salesperson and or a recruiter who's talking to a client can personally speak to meeting them having a relationship with them how they interacted with you and what you thought of their skill sets is so different than. Where we are today. It's almost of back I would ah I would akin it to some of the executive recruiters I've talked with right? they want that if your're hydro struggles right dhr etc right? They want that high-level connection so they can go to the board or the Ceo and say I've met with this individual.
14:16.21
Joel Leege
This individual fits your profile What you're looking for and that it's not just we have a great system and it sourced us all the best candidates and we identified the top 3 So I do think there's a I know this started with ratios but part of the art of recruiting is still the art of recruiting. And still the ability to speak on the behalf of a candidate and that's not something you can do when someone just slides you a piece of paper.
14:39.23
Brad Owens
I Think the underlying term that I'm hearing from you and from what keeps coming up on these conversations that I'm having is this sort of talent matching world that we're in and the placement world. It's built on. Trust.
14:54.55
Joel Leege
Is it.
14:57.30
Brad Owens
Like 100% is built on trust if you can even say little things like to your point of I've literally met this person I have talked to them and I know they're a good fit because and you've also listened to your customer when they say here's what would be a good fit and you can spit that back to them like those are the things that build. Trust.
15:02.61
Joel Leege
Yeah.
15:16.21
Brad Owens
That is why every single time I'm on a panel or I'm doing some sort of speaking engagement. Everyone's like yeah, but a I was going to replace the recruiter oh bull crap like you can't replace that trust building like it's going to take forever. Not say that it can't happen but it'll take forever for Ai and other tools.
15:23.15
Joel Leege
Right? right.
15:35.58
Brad Owens
Be able to build that kind of trust so when we think about what's working why does old school keep winning.
15:41.79
Joel Leege
I I mean I have another example I sorry sorry I went to small for right? We're just sort of under 50000027 28 people internally made a hire or hiring right? We're hiring sales folks so I went to hr hey can I get our Linkedin recruiter license right? Want to. Put a post out there so we do within the first 24 hours I think we had over a hundred candidates in the requirements right expectations that they had in industry experience and staffing and we're in this geographic mark.
16:04.81
Brad Owens
Sure.
16:16.46
Joel Leege
98 out of the hundred did not have either of those 2 right? Um I saved a template in Linkedin. It's first time I'd done it and I personally wrote back every person was on there I'm sure there was a more efficient way to do it and said not moving forward and here's why.
16:19.68
Brad Owens
Um, get.
16:34.37
Joel Leege
But really appreciate your interest in redo generally do I think to a person. Everyone wrote back. Thank you so much for personally responding to me and but yet at the same point I know a lot of people out. There are saying I've got a tool. You can put it in and then every candidate who applies gets an automatic reply from you saying we'll look at your resume. Thanks so much for applying to Xyz company. Okay, it's it's efficient, but the candidates feel like yeah, that's kind of automatic today right? like I should get the bounce back email. But.
17:07.39
Brad Owens
Are.
17:09.92
Joel Leege
Actually hearing from somebody and knowing it's a live person makes a big difference. So I think it's winning just because I don't know what your last experience was with a chatpot but usually it results in me asking someone to call me right? I mean if they can resolve it on the chatpot. It's awesome.
17:26.61
Brad Owens
Um, this.
17:29.67
Joel Leege
Like it's really cool but they missed my trash last week I had to get on the chat box for waste management and figure it out and and it was really frustrating because eventually it's like can you just have someone call me but can I just talk to customer service about this technology should enable it to be better. But I think sometimes it's just it's been a funnel.
17:38.23
Brad Owens
Are.
17:48.37
Joel Leege
And it's just elongated that process.
17:49.72
Brad Owens
Do you think that I mean we've got bias right? We're the old recruiting guys like we've been doing it a while we were doing it when that kind of hand held touch really worked in the industry. Do you think that.
17:56.53
Joel Leege
Yeah.
18:09.23
Brad Owens
There is a part of the demographics out there that doesn't want someone to call them.
18:15.50
Joel Leege
I think there is right I think that I know when we've put talent. You know how out of a client site and I go back to when I was working with Ibm and and working with them directly I would often ask the the individuals then how do you like to be communicated with. You know I'm I on site here multiple times a week would you rather than I just stop by your desk would you rather that I don't stop by your desk would you rather that I at that time email you would you want me to call you like once a month. What would you like and it was a bell currk of sorts right? kind of that middle was like hey anytime your body just stop by it'd be great to to see you others. Let's just do a lunch once a quarter.
18:46.37
Brad Owens
Are.
18:54.54
Joel Leege
Outside of that I'm busy I'm doing my stuff and then to their small group right? Five ten percent said just don't call me like I'm fine with it right? like you don't don't worry about it and so I think it's part of how do people want to be communicated with I think that's one of the things of you know. We do have a course of the population that would just prefer to text I mean it's years ago but I was working with somebody who I grew up grown up with the industry with and he made the comment I think it was like 2015 he said why that was a first I said what was the first he said I made a placement through text. I'm kind of concerned like are you sure he was. It's somebody I'd worked with in the past but I'd reached out with him on email. He's just text me. We went back and forth over the job I'd known the candidate so that was a very different thing but we essentially set everything up. Got him in front of the client confirmed with them and everything was placed by via text. Because that's how the candidate wanted to work. So I do think there's this customization effect that technology should enable us to do that and I think that's a great thing I mean um I don't want to make this commercial for some of the tools out there on on ai but converse ai I know Tim Ro robins pretty well right. He was a monster I was a ronstod right? So we've started an o and but got their tool I was always really intrigued with this tool that here to find out that there is an automatedc recruititer Jamie that every candidate you have in a webly gets a call and I think they get 70 % of them on the phone I don't know all the data.
20:24.74
Joel Leege
But these interview calls last 6 to 26 minutes right I know s I just did a thing where convers ai was on there and did some demos etc some of some of my recruiting leaders can win they like wow there are certainly candidates that are going to say automated call I don't want that automated recruiter rate. Don't want. But some of them are going to say hey if this gives me access to better opportunities and to be very honest if I go back to that black box if I apply to a job on in indeed or Linkedin or wherever one of these web websites and it goes to you and within five to ten minutes I get a call it says hey I saw you apply for this position with Brad Owens but you have a few minutes to talk to me about your application I actually feel good about that that somebody actually saw my content and said hey I'd like to talk with you I get that it's a virtual recruiter but these are very good back and forth conversation. So I do think. Going back to the point there are different ways to engage engage different candidates. What we've got to determine is how quickly can they tell us this isn't how I like to be engaged right? because I think we make sometimes this one assumption. Well this is how we're going to do everything. How do you customize that the best way so that they get the best.
21:26.67
Brad Owens
Um, yeah.
21:36.87
Brad Owens
Sure Yeah, and I agree with you there I think there is a bell curve. There are some people that will and some people that won't and that's totally fine, but our our approach should be able to be flexible enough to account for all the different.
21:36.88
Joel Leege
Candid experience.
21:55.87
Joel Leege
Yeah, yeah.
21:56.44
Brad Owens
Types of people in the world that would want to want to be communicated with yeah so I appreciate that all right? So let's do a theoretical question here then you now have unlimited time Unlimited budget unlimited everything you could possibly think of resources everything else.
22:13.46
Joel Leege
Um, and.
22:13.58
Brad Owens
You now get to solve a problem that exists in the recruiting world today. You've been in it quite a while maybe think about something that's net new something that's happened forever. What would you put money resources effort time into solving.
22:30.91
Joel Leege
Um I think for me, it would be I believe there's so much opportunity within one organization knowing about what I would call J O's and pj os job orders and potential job orders and where I really feel that the value of our business comes from is.
22:41.70
Brad Owens
Okay.
22:48.95
Joel Leege
And 1 of my colleagues said this the other day the minute the client has opened the job order if you call them and then they tell you there's an open job order. You've lost it if you didn't know this was coming if you didn't have a relationship with that customer and all you're trying to do is to compete to fill the job that you just found out about good luck. Because the chances that happening are so so Slim. So I think that there's that a lot of people have tried to to solve this potential job orders which then comes down to how much of my knowledge of the customer is in a database right? say I'm talking to. Microsoft and they say they want to go this direction or Nike they wanted to move this way and when they I'm talking to the team. The e-commerce team and they believe there's a gap in the people that work within their team on let's say whether cyber security or Javascript or whatever it may be There's a gap for these skill sets. And they know that but it's more of a heads up that down the road we're going to be bringing out whether it's an r fee or we're going to be opening up some roles for you in these skillets right? and then we have our talent which every recruiting firm out there likes to tout how large their database is right.
24:01.81
Brad Owens
Um, sure for hate now.
24:02.89
Joel Leege
The biggest one out there is Linkedin a billion members on a billion members on the platform right? So what's everyone trying to do over the years right is match passive candidates with what I would say are potential job orders and the art of that is. Has gotten lost in somewhat of once a job hits right? It has to be posted now and now we demand that's posted online or our website etc and then candidates whether they fit or not or applying to that. Um to be very fair. What we really want of the people that are passably looking either finishing up their assignment. So let's start first with I'm going to be. Bias I want the folks that are working for us to see that in the next three months this company is going to be looking for this. Can we identify hey you're moving from our client here to another opportunity and it's coming. We'd like you to access that so people have talked about giving them access to their database. I know 2 big companies in the top 5 and it that have tried to create tools where clients go into their databases to identify talent that's available right? They've said I I would really like to have access to your talent pool so they've created subsets of their databases so that their clients and these are big companies. Can go in and search the problem is now they're doing the job of a recruiter and while they like to window shop. They don't actually want to go through the process of are you truly interested. Are you too the qualified.
25:34.39
Joel Leege
Is the timing work out for you right? What about cost for right? does this fit market cost rate etc. So all of the core skills. They just want to kind of window shop and say oh look at this this is available. It's a little bit like a data show right? Oh hey I'm an app dev guy and look at all this Java talent or python talent. It's available. This would be awesome. But the art of recruiting gets really challenging and that's also where I think direct sourcing is tough too is it's great to have all this data in the cloud but for us to say I want to access it so I'm getting away from that. But I think if I had to match it. It would be how do candidates who currently working with or or in a database have access to a proprietary set of. Potential opportunities that come in the next two to 4 months and actually match it up and say this is something I'm really interested and by the way I'm super qualified for right? I'm not just you you can't just apply right and then have someone that's more of a res what I would call a resource manager saying yeah, you're right? This is perfect. And then I'm coming to the customer two or three weeks before your project actually kicks off and says hey we listened to you back in Thanksgiving of last year you told us you're gonna be looking for this at the end of q one hey it's March Twelfth here's here are our top people that believe that they would be really interested in your role. And they'd be willing to to work with you on this if I can circumvent all the process of the interviews and s sows and all of that rfps that happened there that to me would be a massive 1.
27:01.30
Brad Owens
Yeah,, that's that be incredible. The the whole time you're saying that I'm trying to think of Okay, how am I going to start keeping track of the data that I would need to be able to activate things like that inside my database. It always comes down to is the end date reel. And is it in the Ats for that current job that assignments on if the end date is real. We now have something that we can match up with the potential start date of something else at being able to have a new wreck in our system that even if it's not a confirmed start date but a potential start date.
27:20.28
Joel Leege
Great.
27:28.25
Joel Leege
Right.
27:38.13
Brad Owens
I can compare those things pretty quickly and I have a qualified candidate that's already set up with us that's already in the database that has guaranteed skill set that we've placed them out on before that makes it a pretty easy matching engine to build.
27:38.51
Joel Leege
Um, right.
27:49.25
Joel Leege
Yeah, no I think it is and and we've talked about this before for many many years right of you know, even being able to have access to let's say a mobile app for our candidates that then says by the way a new opportunity that's within five miles of your house has come up with us. We would be interested in presenting with the client. The challenge is you don't want to take them from one of your current clients to another one before they've completed that assignment so it does come down to timing right? So um, but it's one of those things that we you know it is about the art of matching the right talent with them and then.
28:12.57
Brad Owens
Sure.
28:24.68
Brad Owens
Right? Which and haven't found tech that's been able to do that part yet here.
28:24.69
Joel Leege
Culture and the fit and all of those things.
28:29.72
Joel Leege
Very challenging, right? Very challenging. You know you know you go back in the day right? I mean again back in the day it was this was the art and the beauty of Hukinyon which I think I can speak up more because a company is somewhat than acquired and is different. You know I grew up in a world that. Cdi or early on and then a pds company that was really much about resumeation those. So then I come over to volkinyan and I remember starting to work with the process and they called it custom staffing at the time and the way they would go through it if a customer was on the phone with you asking for. C plus plus developers. The first thing out of your mouth as as a salesperson would be great. We're in the niver market metro marketplace we probably see her on twenty five hundred C plus plus developers on an annual basis that be the case we have the top list of folks that are available and would be really good for this project if you can give me some more details. We could have our best person though on Monday at Eight o'clock that's the case I'm going to probably save you 3 to 4 hours of interview time back and forth us calling you setting up interviews etc and at the end of the day if this person doesn't fit you culturally because I'll guarantee they're going to fit it technically they don't fit it culturally, we're not going to charge you for that. So. That was the way we tried to circument process back in the day was to say you should hire us because we're experts at this now I would only say that for 8 or 9 skills right? if somebody came out and said you know I'm looking for Pega developers could say okay, we're going to have to do a hard search on this. But if it was the core skills that we had someone called them golden skills, etc.
29:58.80
Brad Owens
Um, if.
30:03.18
Joel Leege
We should be able to have our best person there on Monday to be honest, why are you using us if you just want to go through and interview all the people that we just did right? So then the process was if that's a direct fill if the client said no I can't do that I called that to 2 other firms I just can't do it I'd say great I understand that. What times can you make commit to interview within 48 hours and and can you dedicate those times for us so we can fill those thoughts for you. Well I'd really like to see the candidates First again, why are you using us right? if we know your skill set we and and we screw this up then you should fire us right? and then. They say I can't commit to interview times with you in 48 hours I'd say okay minimum 24 hours from now. Can you get on the phone with my delivery team and go over what we think are our top 3 candidates and then at that time if they said again I can't do that just submit your best people to me. Question we would often ask is maybe we shouldn't work on this job right? You have a client that just wants to call it out so there are some of the art of that that goes back Twenty plus years that we still have to manage due process and people say oh that's hard. We got vias. We got this a lot of these have evolved to still having manager relationships. And we know every company I've talked to how do they qualify jobs one two 3 abc a is always do I have manager contact and can I influence the process.
31:30.90
Brad Owens
Hundred percent I love it ah old school continues to work year after year after year after year I absolutely love it. Well Joel thank you so much for spending time with us and to be able to give us this kind of insight.
31:35.25
Joel Leege
Yeah.
31:43.15
Joel Leege
Um.
31:43.59
Brad Owens
Ah, is there any last bit of wisdom that you'd want to leave our audience with here today.
31:47.92
Joel Leege
I always say relationships first right? I mean I know this is about technology and about the tools and I absolutely believe that they're gonna continue to make it better for us and enable us. But if you don't focus on the relationships then I don't I don't know why you're in the business.
32:01.44
Brad Owens
Have to agree? Yep absolutely have to agree all right, everyone? Well that was a another fantastic episode of the transform recruiting podcast. Thank you all so much for listening Joel thank you so much for spending time with us today for more episodes like this please visit transformrecruding dot com if you have.
32:13.97
Joel Leege
Youtube breath.
32:19.75
Brad Owens
Any other people that you'd like to hear from if you think you yourself would have some interesting insight into our audience. Please share them an email for me is hello at bradowins.com happy to to do some networking and find some other good guests for our listeners to to learn from. Ah, but otherwise feel free to visit transform recruiting dot com for this episode show notes including where to find Joel and any other episodes that we have out there so until next time. Thank y'all so much and I'll see you the next one.